I just received an email from someone about a woman named Deborah Davis. She's a 50 year old woman who was using a Public mode of transportation (A Bus) to get to her job. This is a tidbit from her web site:
"The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD."
"On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied:"
And this:
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center. Once inside, she was taken down a hall and told to sit in a chair, still handcuffed, while one of the policemen went through her purse, now retrieved from the bus. The two policemen sat in front of their computers, typing and conferring, trying to figure out what they should charge her with. Eventually, they wrote up several tickets, took her outside and removed the handcuffs, returned her belongings, and pointed her toward the bus stop. She was told that if she ever entered the Denver Federal Center again, she would go to jail.
So what did she do wrong? Well she refused to show a "Security guard" her I.D. and was arrested. I'll not delve into this any further, suffice to say that America is becoming a communist/facist country in my opinion, all in the name of "Freedom" and "National Security". Do you realize what this means? It means that any so called " Peace Officer" Including those Blackwater people can detain, arrest, and possibly make you just disappear without anyone being notified or any legal representation. The fact is? It's called kiss your rights goodbye as an American citizen. Here in Delaware County just the other day they, The Upper Darby Police Deptartment and their new Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood, conducted a "DUI" checkpoint, or better described as a "Roadblock", to catch people doing illegal things.
I am personally for this, being that it was done in a straight-forward way, late at night, and netted results. And, It is very different than what happenned to Ms. Davis. She was using public transportation, not driving, which under Pennsylvania law is classified as a "Privilege, not a right".
I say this sharade has to stop. Just visit her web site and read it. Decide. Are you ready for this?Are you ready for YOU to be treated this way? As a "Terrorist? I would love to hear your opinions on this. Amuse me.
Musings from a variety of people from Delaware County, Pennsylvania.
11/22/2005
The Right To Travel Freely In America - DENIED !
I just received an email from someone about a woman named Deborah Davis. She's a 50 year old woman who was using a Public mode of transportation (A Bus) to get to her job. This is a tidbit from her web site:
"The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD."
"On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied:"
And this:
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center. Once inside, she was taken down a hall and told to sit in a chair, still handcuffed, while one of the policemen went through her purse, now retrieved from the bus. The two policemen sat in front of their computers, typing and conferring, trying to figure out what they should charge her with. Eventually, they wrote up several tickets, took her outside and removed the handcuffs, returned her belongings, and pointed her toward the bus stop. She was told that if she ever entered the Denver Federal Center again, she would go to jail.
So what did she do wrong? Well she refused to show a "Security guard" her I.D. and was arrested. I'll not delve into this any further, suffice to say that America is becoming a communist/facist country in my opinion, all in the name of "Freedom" and "National Security". Do you realize what this means? It means that any so called " Peace Officer" Including those Blackwater people can detain, arrest, and possibly make you just disappear without anyone being notified or any legal representation. The fact is? It's called kiss your rights goodbye as an American citizen. Here in Delaware County just the other day they, The Upper Darby Police Deptartment and their new Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood, conducted a "DUI" checkpoint, or better described as a "Roadblock", to catch people doing illegal things.
I am personally for this, being that it was done in a straight-forward way, late at night, and netted results. And, It is very different than what happenned to Ms. Davis. She was using public transportation, not driving, which under Pennsylvania law is classified as a "Privilege, not a right".
I say this sharade has to stop. Just visit her web site and read it. Decide. Are you ready for this?Are you ready for YOU to be treated this way? As a "Terrorist? I would love to hear your opinions on this. Amuse me.
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Howdy,
ReplyDeleteYikes! Much craziness in America. I have found your blog to be intellectually stimulating. Feel free to stick a link in my guestbook (www.jaeford.com).
I received an email from a total stranger about it. I do stand behind the DUI checkpoints though, something that a few of my friends do not. One, I'll call him "Gabe", is adamant that in PA you have a "Right" to drive a motor vehicle, therefore stopping him is violation of his rights.
ReplyDeleteBTW, feel free to post a new thread on this subject, and have a safe Thanksgiving holiday.
Cheers.
I found this on another blog and I agree with the author: "The pictures of the pretty flags at the visitor's entrance to the Federal Center are nice, but they didn't show pictures of the eight-foot chain link fence with barbed wire that surrounds the complex, and they didn't show the vehicle checkpoint where all visitors' cars are searched and checked underneath, and they didn't show the four-foot high sign stating that, to gain entry, all persons must present valid identification and submit to a vehicle and/or physical inspection.
ReplyDeleteThis place has 28 federal agencies, an Army Reserve facility, and 6,800 employees on a daily basis. That makes it the largest concentration of government agencies outside Washington D.C., and that means it makes sense to take precautions to protect it."
So what did she do wrong? Well she refused to show a "Security guard" her I.D. and was arrested.
ReplyDeleteShe was free to go after refusing her to show her ID. There is no law that says a Cop (or anyone else for that matter) can't ask you to show ID. And you have every legal right to refuse that request. It's known as a 'consensual exchange.' She was asked to leave the bus three times. The refusal to follow the directives of the Federal police (that's who arrested her, not the security guard) is what caused her arrest.
I'm not sure why the "Security Guard" thing is an issue anyway. First, that's a vague term. It could mean a hired detail or it could mean the security personnel of the DFC. Secondly, you show your ID to enter a night club, to board an airplane, etc. These folks typically aren't even sucurity guards, they're just the hired help. So why all the disdain for the security guard here? All he did was go and get the Feds. That's who busted Davis, not the security guard.
I'll not delve into this any further, suffice to say that America is becoming a communist/facist country in my opinion, all in the name of "Freedom" and "National Security".
Ah, the slippery slope argument. The ID check requirement has been in place since at least 9/11, possibly back as far as Oklahoma City. As long as you have the right to refuse to show your ID, your Constitutional rights have not been violated. Davis excercised that right. What she didn't have was the right to enter the DFC on HER terms. It's Fed property, they make the rules.
Do you realize what this means? It means that any so called " Peace Officer" Including those Blackwater people can detain, arrest, and possibly make you just disappear without anyone being notified or any legal representation. The fact is? It's called kiss your rights goodbye as an American citizen.
I'm not sure how you reach this conclusion. You are not required to present you ID unless you're trying to enter private property (such as a nightclub, an airport or the gate of the DFC). You can always say no. Of course, by doing so you void your ability to enter any of those places. I'm really not clear on how you can say Davis "disappear(ed) without anyone being notified or any legal representation." Clearly this is not what happened, nor does her case set the stage for that to happen. She was arrested, cited and released. She'll be arrigned on 12/9 and she'll have boatloads of legal representation.
Here in Delaware County just the other day they, The Upper Darby Police Deptartment and their new Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood, conducted a "DUI" checkpoint, or better described as a "Roadblock", to catch people doing illegal things.
The principle is similar to the Davis case, in that it's not a random thing - every person passing through is treated equally (which is also why Davis is no Rosa Parks.) Here's the kicker, and it applies to the Davis case as well. If they cops at the DUI checkpoint (or the guards at the DFC) take your ID and check it for warrants, arrests etc (or against a no-fly/no-ride list), at that point they would be violating your 4th amendment rights. Why? Because it's no longer a consenesual exchange and is now an investigation without probable cause. Do you see the difference? Checking Davis' ID is legal; comparing it against a list is not.
She was using public transportation, not driving, which under Pennsylvania law is classified as a "Privilege, not a right".
True. However, once she entered DFC property, regardless of if she were in a car, on foot, on a pogo stick on or piggyback, she's under Fed jurisdiction and subject to their rules.
I say this sharade has to stop. Just visit her web site and read it. Decide. Are you ready for this?Are you ready for YOU to be treated this way? As a "Terrorist? I would love to hear your opinions on this. Amuse me.
If you mean the charade, I agree. Davis' web site is incredibly one-sided and has more spin than a Maytag on rinse cycle. The bolggers are using this as their sole source of information and just lapping up the rhetoric as if it were the gospel truth. There is the PDF file on her site that is the statement of the arresting officer, but you really have to dig to get it. But I'm talking more about the biased descriptions of the incident used on the site. Based on what I've read on the various blogs, most people read the headline and a paragraph or two and don't read any further. They then hop on the blog sites and start screaming bloody murder about how we're turning in Nazi Germany. Well, there's no comparison. We can always say no to producing ID and walk away. But by doing so, we may not be able to avail ourselves of all modes of transportation or enjoy access to every venue. Has everyone forgotten the Madrid train and London bus and subway bombings already?
Take a look at these and see what you think:
The latest ruling on the John Gilmore case, very similar to Davis' and also found at the "papers, please" site:
http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200403/msg00226.html
Colorado Supreme court ruling on an ID as a 'consensual exchange':
http://www.csp.state.co.us/academy/ar202.htm
Regulation on following "signs & directions":
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/41cfr102-74.375.pdf
Ruling on the validity of ID checks upon entering Federal property:
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1130157956384
People need to stop, look at BOTH sides and then think. Move past the "my son is in Iraq" and "her arms were wrenched behind her" (when doesn't that happen during an arrest?) pity angles, please, and get to the LEGAL issues, the ones the courts will decide: 1) What, is any laws were broken, and by whom; 2) What, if any, Constitutional rights were violated.
if anybody can find a reason not to even think about this as a problem they're idiots!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteMadrid? The bombs were underneath the train, not carried on board like they want you to believe.
ReplyDelete